An interview: Xun-ling Au at the internetfreedomfestival.org weekly Glitter Meetup.

Notes: I was invited to share at internetfreedomfestival.org weekly Glitter Meetup. The event happened on the 13th Oct 2022 at 9am EDT. I was given a list of questions in advance & these are my written responses. there were also some additional questions from attendees which I have incorporated as X.(a) as they were mainly follow ups.

Publishing this as some people couldn’t make it and wanted to see what I said. As usual this is my view & mine alone. the main things that are missing from this are the emjois & some of the typos…

Huge thanks to @InternetFF for the invite!

1. Introduction: Your name, work/education title, where you’re from, and a brief description of your experience in the digital rights space so far

Hi, I am Xun-ling Au, I live in the UK. For the past 2ish years (I am newish to this) I’ve yelled a lot on twitter, written a couple of things, got involved in a range of different things in a one off or supportive capacity, launched a small project. I am a team member of the @MTA_Calendar project & help with some #MilkTeaAlliance groups.

I often feel like I’m just a random off the internet (which I am) but then again, I guess we all are.

In terms of the digital rights space… Erm the #milkteaAlliance was/is very (although not only) online, so digital rights & access are enablers, threats to them are struggles we get involved in because once lost or curtailed it makes things harder.

2. Can you give us a brief background on what the Milk Tea Alliance is?

That is quite a big question! I probably can’t do it justice here… I’ll speak to my own experience of it. As it means a lot of different things to different people.

For me at it’s core “it” is a hashtag, a banner, a rallying cry. Something that kinda says here’s a thing that matters & we need help. It’s origins are from a shit posting war between Thai & Chinese netizens over the girlfriend of a Thai actor implying that Taiwan is a country (it is). The Thai’s were joined by netizens from Hong Kong & Taiwan initially, someone made a joke about Milk Tea & the hashtag was born. It very quickly spread & was piggybacked on by quite a lot of activists & causes.
In the 1st month alone (April 2020) it was used by something like 15 different causes, activists in 12 countries & a lot of memes were made.

Anyway this put lots of groups & activists in contact with each other for the 1st time… relationships & connections were made. Networks formed, strengthened & added to. Milk Tea Alliance accounts & groups formed. Some of which still exist, others are on “hiatus”, some defunct. Some of this was open, much also out of sight, there were some groups that were only involved on the meme side, others more serious. There are groups who either self describe as #MilkTeaAlliance or still regularly use the Tag. But also there are groups that did the tag but don’t any more.

It’s not really an organisation, I don’t think it’s in it of itself a movement. I would describe that it’s maybe a loose network of relationships between activists, groups, movements & struggles. With a well known hashtag.

So today the term is probably more of a shorthand for the various struggles that are going on in East & South East Asia (and beyond) in most ways it is not a movement of itself but maybe more of a bridge between them.

For more background on the origins & what it is… I usually refer to:
https://twitter.com/NiaoCollective/status/1320613362267545600?s=20&t=rHN0ycssRV6fVy7Zhm-ynQ

& more recently this article:
https://mediamanipulation.org/case-studies/milk-tea-alliance-meme-war-transnational-activism

3. How did you get involved in the movement and what were your motivations?

I wasn’t really that active on twitter at the beginning of 2019 but turned to it for news as the 2019 Hong Kong Anti-extradition treaty bill protests got bigger. Wanting to learn more about & support the movement. My grandfather grew up there & until the mid 90s I had some relatives there. So I’d had an interest in what was happening.

I listened, talked with people, made some friends, encountered more contexts. I didn’t want to be just an observer, but I didn’t really know what I could do to help… so just started RTing & talking about it and it went from there. I think starting with trying to listen & understand a bit 1st was important for me. I saw a lot of complaints that outsiders were speaking over people on the ground or misinterpreting things. One Hong Konger specifically took the time to explain what they wanted from allies & how someone like myself could help & I really took that to heart.

Stumbled into the hashtag at some point, not even sure where I saw it first. But there were two aspects about it that appealed. The 1st was seeing people & from so many different struggles & countries get involved, raising up each other’s struggle even in the midst of their own. The second was that it was transnational not linked to just one country or context & for me somewhat that helped give me more confidence to speak out… cause it was there to get involved in…

What kept me in is the friends I’ve made since. Sometimes it has been hard. Some have gone dark (off the internet) over time, Others have been jailed. But for me there came a point that I was doing it for my friends not just the principles or the cause.

4. How exactly do members of the Alliance carry out their work? What have been some of the significant struggles and moments?

It’s hard to point to significant moments, as the ebb & flow of each struggle is different. For me seeing how quickly many activists & groups started raising awareness of the situation in Myanmar following the attempted coup stands out. Lots of people rallied round very fast to highlight the issue, try to find ways to support & such.

Another one that I thought was quite something when many activists from the Myanmar movement started tweeting about the #ParoNacional protests in Colombia in 2021 & they also in return sent messages back. Similarly there was a huge outpouring of support for the people of Belarus from Hong Kongers (Some great art too) after the rigged elections there. See: https://twitter.com/joshuawongcf/status/1294443526718193665?s=20&t=kUrMj8feuebdWSYBC0hqZA

Other notable moments, seeing the HK protest tactics get documented & translated into Burmese was quite incredible. In fact the whole protest tactics being shared across contexts is something powerful and has gone way beyond the #milkteaAlliance. You see some pictures and it’s like is that Hong Kong or Thailand or Portland USA? People learn from each other, it’s quite amazing.

In terms of work, what work? We just shit posters. I jest a little but it’s really hard to say as I think different groups & people take a different approach.

I can only really talk about the corners of it I’m involved in. So one group has about 100 people in it… maybe 25 quite active people & others who dip in and out. Basically, activists will bring campaigns to the group & see who wants / can help. This is everything from “We have a twitter campaign going”, “here is a news article to share”, “can people sign this petition”, “this event is coming up can you highlight it”, “can we as a group write a statement on this issue”, “we are thinking about doing something anyone got any advice”, “any advice on digital security”, “we got this problem any ideas”, “Can people help with some research”, “Can anyone translate”… like a whole range of stuff. If people have the time / skills / inclination to help… they do.

The other project I’m very involved in is The Milk Tea Alliance calendar. The team searches out events that we think are relevant to the MTA & highlight them.
It highlights all sorts of events from protests, webinars, panels, training events, fundraisers, art exhibitions… kind of anything that is related to movements, struggles orgs that are related to the MTA in some way. (Some Caveats apply lol) Can find it on Twitter @MTA_Calendar & it has a google calendar with well over 1000 events in it over the last year or so… While it’s main purpose was to highlight upcoming events, a few researchers have been looking at it to help with their work too.

It basically came about because there was & is A LOT going on & it’s hard to keep track of. Originally its aim was to the group just know what things could be attended / supported but it was realised quite quickly that it was worth making public.

5. Can we talk about which movements and struggles you see *within* the #MilkTeaAlliance? To capture the nuance of this movement?

“within” is really hard to define.

My baseline is “has the tag been used in association with it & have activists / groups from other contexts voiced some support”. Not all groups within a struggle would be call themselves Alliance & sometimes the Alliance proactively supports a movement. (Also again my view, others may differ). So the list highlights some struggles & some groups within those struggles (who may not actually self identify as alliance).

Pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong. This is now mainly spearheaded by Diaspora groups (My favourite crew are @alliancecanhk)
The broad Anti-CCP struggle inc (Tibetan Freedom @SFTHQ , The oppression / genocide in Xinjiang, Taiwanese right to self determination)
Thai Pro-Democracy movement such as ทะลุแก๊ซ — Thalugaz @thalugazzz ; แนวร่วมธรรมศาสตร์และการชุมนุม (UFTD) @ThammasatUFTD ; Thalufah-ทะลุฟ้า @Thalufah
Various environmental issues (Climate change in Tibet / Mekong Dam campaigns)
The resistance of the peoples of Myanmar against the Coup (and the struggles of the ethnic groups for recognition) ALTSEAN-Burma
@Altsean Progressive Voice @PVamplify
The fight for justice & peace for the Rohingya.
Large swathe of LGBTQI & women’s rights groups from across South East Asia. Like @femfemfoofoo in Thailand & @ILGAAsia @ASEANSOGIE
Human Rights & justice groups from all over such as @AbolisyonPH in the Philippines, the anti-death penalty activists in Singapore.
Some of the Malaysian struggles noticeably #LAWAN & #KerajaanGagal & #benderaputih
Anti-discrimination groups… Love @cubadengardulu for this one…
Language rights activists…

There are lots more too many to list… That’s a taste I guess..

5.(a) A related question to this, if you don’t mind: is there an instance where some kind of issue or struggle doesn’t become part of the alliance? or is it quite inclusive in that way?

Erm maybe… I think there are some that don’t fit with some of the broad values of anti-authoritarian or are contrary to human rights. Some get less response than others… A lot is just throw it out there and see what happens.

6. You describe yourself as being in the ally rather than diasporic category: could you explain both categories and their differences?

Kinda wish I had never written that But I got called a “Hong Konger” a few times & didn’t want to mis-represent who I was.

I see it as an Ally is fully from outside the context. Diaspora has more direct links to it both personally, culturally & likely ethnically. It’s not always a good distinction but I mainly didn’t want to present as something I’m not… While both might play similar roles, when it comes to struggles, they are often perceived differently.

My background & family history is quite mixed I’m Khasi / Chinese (Han & Other?) / English. My grandfather grew up in HK, My father was born in India but I’ve lived my life in UK. So I while I have some diasporic links to some struggles, I felt it was better to self-describe as an ally especially as I while I started out supporting the movement in Hong Kong, Not that that has stopped me being called a Hong Konger, a Malaysian & more by people (mainly by random journalists using my tweets in their stories lol).

7. Do you have anything to say about the transnational nature of this movement, and how it has impacted movements beyond Asia? For example, activists in Iran are now looking to the MTA for support.

The transnational nature has been baked into it from the outset. I think as people learned more about the similarities between struggles, the more they could relate to each other, the more sympathy & empathy grew. I think there is also an aspect of “protest swapping” where activists speak out on the other issues where it is too dangerous to talk about their own contexts & trust that others will do the same & people will see the similarities.

Off the top of my head… Struggles in Iran, Belarus, Ukraine, Colombia, Nigeria, Kashmir, that of the Kurdish peoples & Palestinians have been mentioned at some point with the hashtag I suspect more. How much interaction there has been varies…

On Iran specifically some Iranian activists have been inside some of the MTA groupings for quite a while now… since #IraniansBoycottElections campaign in June 2021. They are our friends & like with many causes / struggles there might not be lots that we can do practically but we can help them spread the word, we can show that people are listening to them.

8. What do you think the future holds for the Alliance? Is it still relevant and impactful two years on?

I think the hashtag will disappear & reappear from time to time. I don’t think that’s too important. Commentators have already declared the #MilkTeaAlliance dead like twice or three times… As the Hong Kong Umbrella movement said in 2014 said “we’ll be back”.

I think the links built, the sheer number of people “activated”, the fact that some Milk Tea Alliance activists are becoming staff or in some cases getting into boards of established CSOs (years before usually would happen), will have impact for years to come, the networks & friendships build will last. It’s kind of supercharged a generation, given them connections & links with others that they wouldn’t have had before. It’s spread learning, ideas & solidarity.

For a lot of the groups that have formed it will depend on if they decide to build something, if they can find the resources too… or they become part of something more established or fade. We will see on that. Anyone sitting on any funding to support groups transitioning from groups to orgs please reach out haha

Just today Sam Yan Press @SamyanPress held an online event & poster campaign in #SolidarityWithJoshuaWong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJArP5yAuPk

https://twitter.com/SamyanPress/status/1580417783044579328?s=20&t=3GW3QkCTnwhMwHdGGecvIA

I mention that as the event was tagged #milkteaalliance so it still definitely is used & has some relevance…. maybe the name & tag will fade but what has been started will continue.

9. What can allies do to help support the movement? or collaborate with #MilkTeaAlliance?

At an individual level, just help raise awareness of the various struggles, social media is really good for this, but also in everyday life where there is opportunity. Listen to activists in the struggles, amplify them. As individuals pay attention, sign those random petitions, put pressure on your governments, donate to campaigns. Trying to learn more about the contexts helps too.

If you see relevant events… Please DM them on twitter to @MTA_Calendar we really rely on people letting us know what is going on. The team is quite small so we miss a lot.

For organisations, if you have some specialisms, share it, if you have any capacity to support offer it, make your trainings & resources available if they are relevant. Offer up spaces, platforms.

One thing that is lacking is suitable mental health support for many activists. Burn out is everywhere. For many they got dropped into the deep end, seen some terrible stuff, been traumatised by it. However many services are not in suitable languages or relevant or culturally sensitive so it can be a challenge.

Last thing to say is that trust is quite hard to build so don’t be disheartened if people don’t get back to you… They may be in the middle of a tight spot or burnt out or any number of things. Security matters…

9.(a).What are the main public channels/accounts related to the milk tea alliance that we can follow and elevate?

There are a lot. In terms of MTA named accounts:
@MTA_Museum @mta_PH @IDmilktea @MTA_Calendar are probably the more active ones at the moment. To note that no-one… not me, not anyone can really speak for the alliance as a whole (whatever it is).

In terms of individuals… there are a lot. Probably too many to list. Also lots of groups specific to individual struggles. I like @NiaoCollective a lot, really worth perusing their thread of threads…

10. Is there anything else you’d like to say to add to our discussion today or mention to our Glitter meetup attendees?

There are probably a lot of things that I would like to mention, I could talk about this for hours I think. But to highlight a couple of things:

The #Revotober campaign on twitter & Facebook is many artists raising awareness of what is happening in Myanmar with new prompts & artworks every day. I think it’s a great way of getting the message out there. Myself & a few others are working to archive all the art work to make sure it’s kept. Hopefully we aren’t the only people doing it… Redundancy is good I think.

Personally trying to push this fundraising drive for the “Karen Women’s Organisation” they work in Karen state in south east Myanmar. Supporting internally displaced people. They do a lot of cross border work around the Thai — Myanmar border. They got a match donation scheme going for the next couple of months. Here is their website https://karenwomen.org/ (I’m not affiliated with them but many of the ethnic CSOs are doing lots of heavy lifting but are often overlooked & lack the support that INGOs get)

Lastly & to end: “Moreover, the existence of this alliance implies that “you are not alone” to the activists.” This I feel is the most important thing about solidarity. Each of us might not be able to help much but if we do what we can, we will make a difference together